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Latin Letter 'LJ'

weather: cloudy
outside: 8°C
mood: amused
I notice the niftiest stuff while I'm poring over reams and reams of font glyph tables.

LJ     Lj     lj

Those are the "Latin letter LJ" in various forms of capitalization. Highlight them and you'll see that each of those is one character, not two. I have no idea how they're used though.

The glyphs are at Unicode code points 0455 (x01C7), 0456 (x01C8) and 0457 (x01C9). They're implemented in the "Lucida Sans Unicode" font in Windows and "Lucida Grande" (I think) on the Mac.


Comments

( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
axiem
Dec. 18th, 2004 10:05 pm (UTC)
...I'm really trying to see how "et" would eventually turn into "&". I'm not seeing the "e" in there at all...
(Deleted comment)
axiem
Dec. 18th, 2004 11:45 pm (UTC)
Ahh, now I see it...I think.

And to think I'm gaining an interest in typography...

But still, that's really cool to know. Thanks! :)
grey_archangel
Dec. 18th, 2004 09:15 pm (UTC)
Wow. At least I'm not alone... I'm not aware of any language that uses latinic letters that has the Lj... I'm sure there is though...somewhere out there.

Funny, as I was looking at this a couple months ago looking for Cyrillic letters I will never ever use and somehow came across a Latin letter I will never ever use. ^^; Sorry I can't help. I'm just jumping in your boat.

Actually...thinking about it, perhaps it's similar to nj & æ in that they are just how they were written and/or have a specific sound. Yeah. Okay. Jumping overboard now.
brokenclay_
Dec. 18th, 2004 09:27 pm (UTC)
The 'lj' ligature is a latinization of a letter in the Croatian alphabet: http://www.single-serving.com/Croatian/GP/alphabet.html
pne
Dec. 18th, 2004 09:53 pm (UTC)
*nods* For round-trip compatibility between Croatian (Latin) and Serbian (Cyrillic), the Cyrillic letters Љ and Њ map one-to-one onto "letters" LJ and NJ, so that when you convert them back, you'll get the Cyrillic letter (while LJ would turn into ЛЈ rather than Љ).

And there are separate uppercase, titlecase, and lowercase forms of those ligature letters.

I believe there are similar ligature forms for DŽ (DŽ, corresponding to Serbian Cyrillic Џ) and also for DZ (DZ, corresponding to Macedonian Cyrillic Ѕ).
timwi
Dec. 19th, 2004 04:30 am (UTC)
Wow. Whenever I think I know some useless tidbit of information, you always know a lot more!
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 06:10 am (UTC)
*blushes* Thanks.

FWIW, round-trip compatibility is also the reason why some CJK ideographs (hanzi/kanji/hanja) are in Unicode two, three, or even four times: because at least one Korean standard encodes each character as many times as there are different pronunciations in Korean -- usually once, but occasionally more than once, especially if the pronunciation changes according to context. (This typically involves r->n and/or n->zero in initial position.)

I think the only character that has four pronunciations in Korean is , with AK NAK RAK YO.
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 06:19 am (UTC)
Oh, and the Unicode block for these extra copies which are only required for round-trip conversion to existing standards is "CJK Compatibility Ideographs" (U+F900 .. U+FAFF).

The character in question appears there at positions U+F914 (NAK), U+F95C (RAK/LAK), and U+F9BF (YO) in addition to the "standard" position U+6A02, where it presumably corresponds to the character associated with the pronunciation "AK" in the Korean standard.

(I suppose that'll be the most common pronunciation of that character; my Korean is extremely limited and the only thing I know about that character's use in Korean is that its reading is "ak" in the compound 音樂 "eum-ak" (music).)
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 11:33 am (UTC)
Ooo, that reminds me, I just added Michael Kaplan's blog as an LJ SynFeed - michkap_feed =)
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:43 pm (UTC)
Um, I think I did that :) You may have added that account to your friends list, though.
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:45 pm (UTC)
I found it via this entry in oldnewthing; note that the creation date of michkap_feed is a couple of days ago.
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:48 pm (UTC)
Me too =) Which is when I added it (as well?). =)
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 09:45 pm (UTC)
Ah. I thought I had memories of having to choose a name and trying to pick a suitable one, but now I'm not so sure.

At least: now it's there :)
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:47 pm (UTC)
Really? Does livejournal.com/syn/raw.bml not list all the feeds anymore? I couldn't find it in there...

Is there a better list of all the feeds?
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 09:50 pm (UTC)
Really? Does livejournal.com/syn/raw.bml not list all the feeds anymore? I couldn't find it in there...

I don't think it ever did—only "recently updated syndicated accounts" (not certain of the exact criteria).

Is there a better list of all the feeds?

I don't think there is a list of all syndicated feeds. Or even of ones that, say, updated in the past week: I think /syn/list.bml and /syn/raw.bml have a cut-off in the last 24 hours or so, or maybe 48 hours, so if the last update was longer ago, a feed won't show up there.

Heh. I should know this, in theory, since I'm a supporthelp[*] in the 'Syndication' category...

([*] technical term from Support which I'll explain if you want; not sure whether you already knew. However, supporthelp is not "someone who volunteers".)
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 11:15 pm (UTC)
I think I understand now... they've changed the way adding feeds work. You used to be able to provide a feed name as well as the RSS/Atom URI, but now you only insert the URI.

This way, it can apply uniform naming rules for the LJ feed name (*_feed) and it can also control the behaviour of duplicate adds. If it finds the URI does not exist, it creates a new feed and adds it to the user's Friends list. If it already exists, it just adds the feed to their Friends list.

I think /syn/list.bml and /syn/raw.bml have a cut-off in the last 24 hours or so, or maybe 48 hours, so if the last update was longer ago, a feed won't show up there.

But I'm 100% positive that michkap_feed has been updated in the last 24 hours though (December 19, 2004, 2:02pm PST) and it still doesn't show up in /syn/raw.bml.
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 11:34 pm (UTC)
Creating a new syndicated account
I think I understand now... they've changed the way adding feeds work. You used to be able to provide a feed name as well as the RSS/Atom URI, but now you only insert the URI.

*nods*

This way, it can apply uniform naming rules for the LJ feed name (*_feed)

Nope; see below.

and it can also control the behaviour of duplicate adds.

This, yes. Though I think this was in place before as well: if the URL was already in use, you'd get an error message.

If it finds the URI does not exist, it creates a new feed and adds it to the user's Friends list.

Not quite: if it does not exist, it asks you for a username, then creates a new feed and adds it to your Friends list.

If it already exists, it just adds the feed to their Friends list.

This bit is true, though.

I think the new interface makes sense: chances are that a syndicated account will already exist when someone enters a feed URL, so there's no point in making them come up with a username if they're not the first to try the URL. Only if there is no syndicated account are you prompted for a username which is then used to create the syndicated account for that feed URL; if there is one, you just get the chance to pick friends colours and add it to custom groups. You don't get a useless error message just because a syndicated account already exists and you picked a different account name.

Whoever first enters a given URL gets to pick a username, and there are (nearly) no restrictions: pretty much anything that's fifteen or fewer alphanumunders and is not already in use as an account name is allowed. (The only restriction I can think of is reserved prefixes such as "lj_" which can't be used on new accounts unless the creator has special privileges.)

I could have called it "michkap" or "michkap_rss" or "sortingitout" if I wanted (sortingitallout is already taken).

But I'm 100% positive that michkap_feed has been updated in the last 24 hours though (December 19, 2004, 2:02pm PST) and it still doesn't show up in /syn/raw.bml.

*nods* having it update recently is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition. As I said, I don't know all the conditions. (I'm not sure whether /syn/raw.bml only updates periodically, so it'd take a while before a new feed shows up, or what.)
Re: Creating a new syndicated account - bride - Dec. 19th, 2004 11:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
axiem
Dec. 19th, 2004 11:51 am (UTC)
...what's odd is that I didn't need a translation of the word. That's the kanji for "ongaku", or "music", in Japanese.
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:09 pm (UTC)
It's not odd at all. Japanese and Corean use the mostly the same character set. Some of the definitions might have morphed slightly and usage might have changed a bit, but it's mostly the same.

If you knew the Chinese characters, you'd be able to get a general sense of the meaning whether it's in a Japanese or Corean context.
pne
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:46 pm (UTC)
Corea
Any particular reason you spell "Corean" with a C?
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:51 pm (UTC)
Re: Corea
axiem
Dec. 21st, 2004 12:58 am (UTC)
Re: Corea
That's actually fairly interesting.

I will attempt to remember to spell it with a C, though I will probably fail.

I tend to prefer following a people's preference for self-naming, although I understand concessions must be made based on language (that and historical connotations: one of the reasons I don't refer to the Japanese as "Nipponese", since that was a derogatory term in WWII).

Naturally, whenever someone else asks me about such, I will not be able to find that article. Bookmark!
bride
Dec. 21st, 2004 02:51 am (UTC)
Re: Corea
I tend to prefer following a people's preference for self-naming

As do I, as a sign of respect. Although, I'm not sure how prevalent the 'C' spelling is in the Corean/Korean community.

This is the first time I've had an opportunity to try it since reading his article on it... I must've read that months and months ago. But I decided to give the 'C' spelling a test drive =)
axiem
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:49 pm (UTC)
Well, yes. I didn't mean "odd" as in "not expected". But more as in "didn't immediately register". I looked at the characters, read them as "ongaku", then read the Korean stuff, and it took a second for it to sync up in my brain.

My step-mother buys Asian tea (sometimes Korean, sometimes Japanese, sometimes Chinese; she can't tell the difference), and I can generally read pieces of the boxes.

I just usually think of Korean as having a phonetic-like alphabet (yes, I'm using the wrong words; I forget the correct ones), not having things like the kanji I'm used to.

But when you post some things in Chinese, I can pick apart pieces and get meaning based on my knowledge of Japanese.

...what's interesting, I think, is that about all the Japanese language shares with Chinese is some characters and pronounciations. As I understand it, their grammars are fairly radically different.
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 12:53 pm (UTC)
I didn't mean "odd" as in "not expected". But more as in "didn't immediately register".

Ah, I see. =)
bride
Dec. 19th, 2004 11:34 am (UTC)
Heya, if you're interested, I just added Michael Kaplan's blog as an LJ SynFeed - michkap_feed =)
soyelmango
Dec. 24th, 2004 01:00 am (UTC)
One useful effect [which is likely intentional] of the lj glyph is to overlap the l and j's letter space to be more visually pleasant - quite an achievement for applications which don't respect kerning tables.

Anyway, I popped in via Linguaphiles. Hope you don't mind that I add you - I'll be keeping an interested eye on your Chinese medicine entries.
bride
Dec. 24th, 2004 01:06 am (UTC)
Hi, welcome =) I don't mind at all =)
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )

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